HeFi 06-07

[Eliot Kennedy]

Hi all

I see that Zinga has pretty much already answered Hönkki's questions by referring to rules 5.3.1 and 6.2.4 - 6.2.6. I may have missed some of the subsequent discussions after Zinga's reply, but I would also note that after rule 6.2.4, the rules add the following re 'punishment'. (It's pretty complicated as it covers when the ball is stationary and when it is moving, and then various examples within those two situations.)

''6.2.4.   A block-flicked playing figure may not touch the ball or any playing figure of either player.

When the offense occurs:

Punishment:   a.   The ball is stationary:
(1)   The defending playing figure touches a stationary playing figure: back (i).
(2)   The defending playing figure touches the stationary ball: back (i).
(3)   The defending playing figure touches a moving attacking playing figure: obstruction - back (iv).

b.   The ball is moving:
(1)   The defending playing figure touches a stationary playing figure: case (ii).
(2)   The defending playing figure touches the moving ball: free flick (iii).
(3)   The defending playing figure touches a moving playing figure: free flick (iii).

(i)   If back is claimed the referee shall replace all affected playing figures and/or the ball to their previous positions. Then, the referee shall give the signal for the game to continue by stating: play!
(ii)   For violating a stationary playing figure, a free-flick (iii) shall only be awarded if the violated playing figure has been prevented to be used to play a moving ball. Otherwise a back shall be applied as mentioned under (i).
(iii)   Free-flick from where the offending playing figure has committed the offense. Free-flick from the penalty-spot if the offense has been committed in the penalty-area. See rule 11.
(iv)   If back is requested by the attacker, the referee shall replace the offending playing figure and the eventually affected ball to the previous position. The referee shall position the offended attacking playing figure where the offense took place and give the signal for the game to continue by stating: "play!" Thereby, the attacker gains some distance and keeps the number of flicking opportunities with the regarded playing figure. See 5.2.''

So, it does make a difference if the ball is moving, but what is really decisive is whether the defending figure is stationary or not.  Basically, if it is moving, the defender is in the wrong, if it has stopped, the attacker is in the wrong.

On Hönkki's other question, I think the tricky thing is deciding if the attacker has deliberately obstructed the defensive flick. You would have to judge whether the attacker has left his hand on the table too long without flicking in order to block the defender. But those sorts of defensive flicks are hard to do, especially against a quick attacker, as you cannot obstruct the attacker. I think they are often done when the attacker must wait for the defensive flick, ie after a throw in or if the attacking figure has fallen over.

On Kaitsu's question re a deflected figure accidentally hitting the defender's hand and therefore staying in a good/better position, I am not sure if the rules specifically cover this in detail. Zinga?? Rule 1.1.4 does state that 'A flick shall be considered taken if a player has touched any part of any playing figure.'

I think I would say 'play on', but that the defender will not be able to take 'another' defensive flick, as they have already touched a defending figure, even if accidentally. In other words, the player touching their hand IS their defensive flick.

Does this make sense??
 

[Hönkki]

Ok, I got the answers I needed. Thank you Zinga and Eliot. I asked the same questions from Vincent:

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Hi Kari, here are the answers:

1) The defender flicks and try to get between the attacker's figure and the ball. Then the attacker flicks immediately after that and his figure touches the defender's  moving figure before touching the ball. Whose mistake ?
-> it's a "back" in favor of the attacker. If the defender had stopped,
-> he
would gain possession of the ball. Has he didn't the advantage goes to the attacker. The "back" is done as fowwlos: the attacker can be replaced at the point of impact (with the defender) and the defender goes back to where it comes from.

2) The defender is preparing to flick his figure close to the attacker's figure, so that there is no space for attacker's finger to make a flick.
The attacker put his hand in the flickingposition just before the defender's flick and the defender can't flick where he wanted to because attacker's finger is on the way. Is that allowed ?
-> it's a bit more difficult to explain this one because there will be
-> an
interpretation from the referee. If the referee says the attacker put his finger intentionnally to provoke a foul from the defender (the defender touching the finger), there is a free kick in favor of the defender (and the referee can even give a yellow card). If it's nt intentional, the attacker can ask for a back and play the ball.

I hope this answer your questions,

Yours sincerly,

Vincent
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Stuart Osborne, joka kävi pelaamassa kanssamme kesällä, lähetti kirjeitse jouluterveiset. Samalla tuli lontoolaisia subulehtiä, joissa raportti valokuvineen vierailusta Kurvissa. Voin pistää jakoon sillä samaa lehteä on useampi kappale. Stuart tulee Suomeen huhtikuussa, mutta ei tiedä ehtiikö pelaamaan kanssamme, koska aikoo vierailla lähinnä Tampereella ja Rovaniemellä.

[Epis]

Thanks guys for your help. I got the info i needed

[Eliot Kennedy]

Hyvä Suomi!

I'm not sure whether it would be worth checking with Vincent if my answer to Kaitsu's question is correct.

[Rossonero]

Kiinnostavatko ja käyvätkö pelit välipäivinä tai ennen Loppiaista? Itselläni on vain pieniä rajoituksia sopivissa ajankohdissa, joten muut, etenkin Heikonen, voisivat ehdottaa pelipäiviä. FISTF-liiga olisi tarkoitus saada Willeä lukuunottamatta loppuun tammikuun alussa, joten aktiivisuutta kaivataan.

Time for some table football in the next two weeks? My schedule is almost empty so others, especially Heikonen, could suggest a playing time. The plan is to end the league, bar Wille, in the beginning of January, so it's time to be active.

[Epis]

Hei-konen ei välttämättä ole täysin kykenevä lukemaan forumia tällä hetkellä tai ainakin näin ymmärsin sällin puheista viimeksi Kurvissa pelaillessamme... Puhelimella kuulemma tavoittaa, kun on päivä tiedossa tai tiedustelunkin merkeissä. Voisin laittaa viestiä..

Itselleni kyllä sopii ainakin tämän vuoden sisällä järjestettävät tapahtumat (harkkakin)pelin merkeissä jos vaan saadaan pelaajia mukaan.

Edit: Tekstari lähetetty

[Eliot Kennedy]

My schedule is also pretty free at this stage. We may go away for a couple of days, but nothing definite yet. I'm open to any suggestions for dates.

[h-kone]

Miten olisi huomenna torstaina?

FISTF-liiga olisi tarkoitus saada Willeä lukuunottamatta loppuun tammikuun alussa,

Tosin tällaisista aikatauluista ei ollut puhetta liigaa aloitettaessa..  Itse en pysty kovin paljon kovempaan tahtiin kuin keskimäärin pari peliä kuussa, kun on muitakin liigoja/turnauksia sekä kolme duunia.

[Rossonero]

Torstaina pelit koululla alkaen klo 14. Tosin hidasta lähinnä pelataan aluksi. Nopeita pelejä varmaan lähinnä viiden jälkeen. Riippuen pitkälti Heikosen aikataulusta.

FISTF-liiga olisi tarkoitus saada Willeä lukuunottamatta loppuun tammikuun alussa,

Tosin tällaisista aikatauluista ei ollut puhetta liigaa aloitettaessa..  Itse en pysty kovin paljon kovempaan tahtiin kuin keskimäärin pari peliä kuussa, kun on muitakin liigoja/turnauksia sekä kolme duunia.

Ymmärrän yskän. Aikataulu muokkautui, koska liiga on jo loppumetreillä suurimmalla osalla, ja kevätkaudella halutaan pelata uusi liiga, johon tulee uusiakin osanottajia. Minun tullessani mukaan syksyllä oli ainakin itselläni tiedossa, että liigan olisi tarkoituskin loppua jo näihin aikoihin. Eliot lähtee kesällä, joten ennen kesälomia olisi hyvä saada se pelattua, jottei jää kesken. Tämän takia yleisenä toivomuksena on nopea lopetus syyskauden liigalle. Willen pelit jäävät siihen, kun mies palaa sairauslomalta. Toivotaan, että Heikonen pystyy venymään työkiireiltään vielä toisen pelipäivän alkuvuodesta, jolloin kauden pelit varmaan olisivatkin Willeä lukuunottamatta pulkassa.

[Zinga]

Games tonights:

Eliot 1-1 Heikonen
Eliot (with must win game again) wasted chance anfter chance with lousy shooting. Heikonen made it 0-1 when only three minutes left. That kick started Eliot, who made it 1-1 and aimed for the win. However, time over and draw gave the league title in practice to me.

Zinga 2-2 Eliot
Too many mistakes in first half and the quality of the game was not so high. Eliot was leading 0-1 on half time. Eliot made it 0-2 in the middle of seconf half between my pressure time. I think we both thought that the game was over. However, when Eliot started to focus only for defending I got the game flowing and 1-2 came when about three minutes left. Even harder pressure and the equaliser game when only ten seconds were left! Close game and the quality raised towards the end.

Heikonen 1-0 Vesa
Another close game where Heikonen got the goal that Vesa was missing.

Zinga 4-3 Vesa
After 2-0 it seemed to be easy victory, but Vesa made it 2-1 with nice bounce shot and equalised in the middle of the second half. Two goal made it 4-2 before Vesa thundered 4-3 with one minute to play.


Latest table:

Zinga___ 16 13 3 0 68-8 42
Eliot____ 13 8 3 2 39-11 27
Hönkki__ 14 7 3 4 26-9 24
Heikonen 12 5 5 2 15-8 20
Vesa____ 13 5 4 4 22-18 19
Ville____ 13 5 3 5 21-23 18
Kaitsu___ 15 4 2 9 14-25 14
Jarkko__ 12 0 3 9 1-35 3
Masse___ 14 0 2 12 3-72 2

The league is over for me so thanks for the games. I managed to do it without defeats eventhough sometimes the game was not as fluent as it should be. Funny fact was that I took 8 goals agains me and Eliot and Vesa made 7 out of 8. Also I had 14 games with 3 goals against, but tonight I got 5 in two games.

The battle for the bronze is still going tight!

[Hönkki]

The games left:

Vesa-Hönkki,
Vesa-Ville,
Heikonen-Ville,
Heikonen-Eliot,
Kaitsu-Heikonen,
Jarkko-Hönkki,
Jarkko-Ville,
Jarkko-Heikonen,
Jarkko-Eliot,
Masse-Eliot,
Masse-Vesa

[Rossonero]

Congratulations to Zinga!

He was a worthy winner, as he was quite clearly above everyone else in overall quality. He'll be a tough one to beat for the title next year, but I am quite sure that he won't play another league without defeat.

Zinga 4-3 Vesa
equalised in the middle of the second half.

The equaliser was an interesting goal also regarding the rules. Zinga had a shot that my goalkeeper saved to the midfield, then I made a straight pass and scored. Zinga was wondering where his shooting player would end up and was therefore out of position. As the ball was constantly moving, Zinga's player should have been placed afterwards as would my assisting player that had also fallen over. This was a perfect example that when the ball has not stopped, you don't have to stop and wait for figures to be put in place etc.

Eliot suggested that we could try to play this season to the end in January, but Wille and Heikonen are question marks even with that schedule. So we'll see how it goes.

I think we could perhaps start the new season in the end of January.

For the next season I understand that at least Timo and Mankinen - perhaps even Petri K. - are joining the league, but Heikonen is, despite his eagerness to play, forced to withdraw due to lack of time.

[h-kone]

but Heikonen is, despite his eagerness to play, forced to withdraw due to lack of time.

Well, especially if you guys are serious about needing to finish the whole league before summer?

[Rossonero]

but Heikonen is, despite his eagerness to play, forced to withdraw due to lack of time.

Well, especially if you guys are serious about needing to finish the whole league before summer?

Personally I would prefer it, but I'm not sure about the schedule. In the summer there are a lot of vacations, so playing some matches might not be so easy. It depends also on Eliot's timetable.

The worst thing in a league is that some have played their games while others are still half way through their own matches. In this league I think that Eliot had a little disadvantage for knowing that he has to win almost all of his final games. Zinga didn't have so much pressure. Also there has never been a clear picture of the standings because of the difference in games played.

The perfect way would be to play more or less like in all real leagues - according to a schedule. That way there would be no saving some games for last or not playing someone while he's hot. This would perhaps call for a specified matchday, that everyone tries to get to. Maybe once a fortnight.

Still, I'm not making any rules here. I'm just speaking my mind.

[Hönkki]

Olisi hyvä jos seuraava kausi loppuisi viimeistään kesäkuussa. Lomat painavat päälle ja Eliotkin lähtee Australiaan 3.7. Katsotaan nyt sitten kuinka monta pelaajaa on liigaan tulossa ja vähän laskeskellaan millä tahdilla pelejä pitäisi pelata. Riittääkö esim. se tahti jolla nyt on pelattu ?

Olin muuten yhteydessä lappeenrantalaiseen Marko Karhuseen, joka entisaikaan pelaili kovastikin. Hän on lähdössä viideksi kuukaudeksi Hollantiin ja aikoo olla yhteyksissä paikallisiin kerhoihin. Näin sitä saadaan yksi hyvä nopean pelaaja lisää SM-kisoihin.