My schedule is also pretty free at this stage. We may go away for a couple of days, but nothing definite yet. I'm open to any suggestions for dates.
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#137
Yhteisliigat /
joulukuu 20, 2006, 12:08:32
Hyvä Suomi!
I'm not sure whether it would be worth checking with Vincent if my answer to Kaitsu's question is correct.
I'm not sure whether it would be worth checking with Vincent if my answer to Kaitsu's question is correct.
#138
Yhteisliigat / Rules
joulukuu 20, 2006, 10:01:53
Hi all
I see that Zinga has pretty much already answered Hönkki's questions by referring to rules 5.3.1 and 6.2.4 - 6.2.6. I may have missed some of the subsequent discussions after Zinga's reply, but I would also note that after rule 6.2.4, the rules add the following re 'punishment'. (It's pretty complicated as it covers when the ball is stationary and when it is moving, and then various examples within those two situations.)
''6.2.4. A block-flicked playing figure may not touch the ball or any playing figure of either player.
When the offense occurs:
Punishment: a. The ball is stationary:
(1) The defending playing figure touches a stationary playing figure: back (i).
(2) The defending playing figure touches the stationary ball: back (i).
(3) The defending playing figure touches a moving attacking playing figure: obstruction - back (iv).
b. The ball is moving:
(1) The defending playing figure touches a stationary playing figure: case (ii).
(2) The defending playing figure touches the moving ball: free flick (iii).
(3) The defending playing figure touches a moving playing figure: free flick (iii).
(i) If back is claimed the referee shall replace all affected playing figures and/or the ball to their previous positions. Then, the referee shall give the signal for the game to continue by stating: play!
(ii) For violating a stationary playing figure, a free-flick (iii) shall only be awarded if the violated playing figure has been prevented to be used to play a moving ball. Otherwise a back shall be applied as mentioned under (i).
(iii) Free-flick from where the offending playing figure has committed the offense. Free-flick from the penalty-spot if the offense has been committed in the penalty-area. See rule 11.
(iv) If back is requested by the attacker, the referee shall replace the offending playing figure and the eventually affected ball to the previous position. The referee shall position the offended attacking playing figure where the offense took place and give the signal for the game to continue by stating: "play!" Thereby, the attacker gains some distance and keeps the number of flicking opportunities with the regarded playing figure. See 5.2.''
So, it does make a difference if the ball is moving, but what is really decisive is whether the defending figure is stationary or not. Basically, if it is moving, the defender is in the wrong, if it has stopped, the attacker is in the wrong.
On Hönkki's other question, I think the tricky thing is deciding if the attacker has deliberately obstructed the defensive flick. You would have to judge whether the attacker has left his hand on the table too long without flicking in order to block the defender. But those sorts of defensive flicks are hard to do, especially against a quick attacker, as you cannot obstruct the attacker. I think they are often done when the attacker must wait for the defensive flick, ie after a throw in or if the attacking figure has fallen over.
On Kaitsu's question re a deflected figure accidentally hitting the defender's hand and therefore staying in a good/better position, I am not sure if the rules specifically cover this in detail. Zinga?? Rule 1.1.4 does state that 'A flick shall be considered taken if a player has touched any part of any playing figure.'
I think I would say 'play on', but that the defender will not be able to take 'another' defensive flick, as they have already touched a defending figure, even if accidentally. In other words, the player touching their hand IS their defensive flick.
Does this make sense??
I see that Zinga has pretty much already answered Hönkki's questions by referring to rules 5.3.1 and 6.2.4 - 6.2.6. I may have missed some of the subsequent discussions after Zinga's reply, but I would also note that after rule 6.2.4, the rules add the following re 'punishment'. (It's pretty complicated as it covers when the ball is stationary and when it is moving, and then various examples within those two situations.)
''6.2.4. A block-flicked playing figure may not touch the ball or any playing figure of either player.
When the offense occurs:
Punishment: a. The ball is stationary:
(1) The defending playing figure touches a stationary playing figure: back (i).
(2) The defending playing figure touches the stationary ball: back (i).
(3) The defending playing figure touches a moving attacking playing figure: obstruction - back (iv).
b. The ball is moving:
(1) The defending playing figure touches a stationary playing figure: case (ii).
(2) The defending playing figure touches the moving ball: free flick (iii).
(3) The defending playing figure touches a moving playing figure: free flick (iii).
(i) If back is claimed the referee shall replace all affected playing figures and/or the ball to their previous positions. Then, the referee shall give the signal for the game to continue by stating: play!
(ii) For violating a stationary playing figure, a free-flick (iii) shall only be awarded if the violated playing figure has been prevented to be used to play a moving ball. Otherwise a back shall be applied as mentioned under (i).
(iii) Free-flick from where the offending playing figure has committed the offense. Free-flick from the penalty-spot if the offense has been committed in the penalty-area. See rule 11.
(iv) If back is requested by the attacker, the referee shall replace the offending playing figure and the eventually affected ball to the previous position. The referee shall position the offended attacking playing figure where the offense took place and give the signal for the game to continue by stating: "play!" Thereby, the attacker gains some distance and keeps the number of flicking opportunities with the regarded playing figure. See 5.2.''
So, it does make a difference if the ball is moving, but what is really decisive is whether the defending figure is stationary or not. Basically, if it is moving, the defender is in the wrong, if it has stopped, the attacker is in the wrong.
On Hönkki's other question, I think the tricky thing is deciding if the attacker has deliberately obstructed the defensive flick. You would have to judge whether the attacker has left his hand on the table too long without flicking in order to block the defender. But those sorts of defensive flicks are hard to do, especially against a quick attacker, as you cannot obstruct the attacker. I think they are often done when the attacker must wait for the defensive flick, ie after a throw in or if the attacking figure has fallen over.
On Kaitsu's question re a deflected figure accidentally hitting the defender's hand and therefore staying in a good/better position, I am not sure if the rules specifically cover this in detail. Zinga?? Rule 1.1.4 does state that 'A flick shall be considered taken if a player has touched any part of any playing figure.'
I think I would say 'play on', but that the defender will not be able to take 'another' defensive flick, as they have already touched a defending figure, even if accidentally. In other words, the player touching their hand IS their defensive flick.
Does this make sense??
#139
Yhteisliigat / Sunnuntai
joulukuu 16, 2006, 16:16:33
Pojat
I will be there tomorrow for an hour or two. I aim to arrive around 11.30am. Hope to see some of you there!
T.
Eliot
I will be there tomorrow for an hour or two. I aim to arrive around 11.30am. Hope to see some of you there!
T.
Eliot
#140
Yhteisliigat /
joulukuu 14, 2006, 20:34:27
Hi all
I can't make it on Monday, but might be able to make it on Sunday. I need to play HeiKone(!) twice, Vesa, Masse, Zaccy and Zinga. Not sure if any of you can make it on Sunday....
I can't make it on Monday, but might be able to make it on Sunday. I need to play HeiKone(!) twice, Vesa, Masse, Zaccy and Zinga. Not sure if any of you can make it on Sunday....
#142
Yhteisliigat / Next Monday 11.12?
joulukuu 08, 2006, 09:28:57
Hi all
Will we be playing next Monday? If so, will it be at the school or at Kurvi? Either way, I am available
Will we be playing next Monday? If so, will it be at the school or at Kurvi? Either way, I am available
#143
Yhteisliigat / Next flick
marraskuu 29, 2006, 20:44:49
Kiitos, kiitos!
I can't make next Monday (4.12) but can make the one after (11.12).
I can't make next Monday (4.12) but can make the one after (11.12).
#144
SM-Turnaukset /
marraskuu 20, 2006, 17:30:24
Moi pojat!
And thanks to everyone for your thanks! I really enjoyed being the referee for the day and I am glad it helped - at least I hope it did! Sorry for my refereeing mistakes.....I don't know about you all, who had to play the games, but I was exhausted today
As for the story for the FISTF newsletter, Zinga - I will try to incorporate the results (from the quarterfinals on) into what I write, but it might be worth you sending all the results 'officially' too, as it will allow FISTF to give Finnish players official FISTF ranking points too. I will also run the story past you and Hönkki before sending it, just to make sure there are no mistakes. I will send you the draft to look at tomorrow.
All the best.
Eliot
PS I love all the stats too! One thought I had for your ranking of the clubs - given the different number of games played (eg only Puppe to represent Varkaus so far), maybe you could also include a 'winning percentage' table too, by dividing points actually gained by total points possible. We used to do this for our unofficial Australian club and individual rankings....
And thanks to everyone for your thanks! I really enjoyed being the referee for the day and I am glad it helped - at least I hope it did! Sorry for my refereeing mistakes.....I don't know about you all, who had to play the games, but I was exhausted today
As for the story for the FISTF newsletter, Zinga - I will try to incorporate the results (from the quarterfinals on) into what I write, but it might be worth you sending all the results 'officially' too, as it will allow FISTF to give Finnish players official FISTF ranking points too. I will also run the story past you and Hönkki before sending it, just to make sure there are no mistakes. I will send you the draft to look at tomorrow.
All the best.
Eliot
PS I love all the stats too! One thought I had for your ranking of the clubs - given the different number of games played (eg only Puppe to represent Varkaus so far), maybe you could also include a 'winning percentage' table too, by dividing points actually gained by total points possible. We used to do this for our unofficial Australian club and individual rankings....
#146
Yhteisliigat / Next playing night
marraskuu 12, 2006, 18:55:28
Hi all. Sorry I could not make it over the weekend - my boys had sähly on both days....are we playing tomorrow (Monday)? At Kurvi?
#147
Muut turnaukset /
marraskuu 04, 2006, 20:29:24
Kiitos Kari for the rule clarification.
See you all tomorrow.
See you all tomorrow.
#148
Muut turnaukset / Tournament using ancient Finnish/Kurvi rules!
marraskuu 04, 2006, 14:42:22
Pojat
I am in tomorrow. Watch out! If I may, I will play as Liverpool (my only unpolished team!). If not, maybe someone can lend me a team for the day.
I look forward to a full briefing on the rules that will apply....
Eliot
I am in tomorrow. Watch out! If I may, I will play as Liverpool (my only unpolished team!). If not, maybe someone can lend me a team for the day.
I look forward to a full briefing on the rules that will apply....
Eliot
#149
Yhteisliigat /
marraskuu 02, 2006, 13:35:46
Moi pojat!
I have read the latest news with much interest! When are one of you guys going to beat our frontrunner, Mr Zinga?! roll:
What is the latest regarding our next playing night? Is it on Sunday or Monday? At Kurvi or at the school?
Look forward to seeing you all soon.
Eliot
I have read the latest news with much interest! When are one of you guys going to beat our frontrunner, Mr Zinga?! roll:
What is the latest regarding our next playing night? Is it on Sunday or Monday? At Kurvi or at the school?
Look forward to seeing you all soon.
Eliot
#150
Yhteisliigat / Tervetuloa Vesa!
lokakuu 17, 2006, 21:01:00
Moi kaikki!
I have only just now caught up with the latest developments. Welcome Vesa to the FISTF league - the more the merrier I say! Obviously you were so inspired by the game between Zinga and me, then your game against me, that you could not resist!:lol: Seriously, I think it is excellent yo have joined. Maybe we will need to move the FISTF league to the bigger venue at the school.....
But Hönkki, what's happening Mr President??!! Two losses in a row - you will be out for a big win when I come back from my training in Spain! Let's hope it is against Zinga and not me...
See you all in a few weeks.
Eliot
I have only just now caught up with the latest developments. Welcome Vesa to the FISTF league - the more the merrier I say!
Obviously you were so inspired by the game between Zinga and me, then your game against me, that you could not resist!:lol: Seriously, I think it is excellent yo have joined. Maybe we will need to move the FISTF league to the bigger venue at the school.....But Hönkki, what's happening Mr President??!! Two losses in a row - you will be out for a big win when I come back from my training in Spain! Let's hope it is against Zinga and not me...
See you all in a few weeks.
Eliot