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Aloittaja Hönkki, kesäkuu 24, 2008, 13:24:08

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Rossonero

Lainaus käyttäjältä: Hönkki - syyskuu 04, 2014, 15:43:52
Uudet säännöt eivät ole vielä voimassa. Kisojen yhteydessä on joku kokous, jossa lopullisesti päätetään missä muodossa säännöt tulevat voimaan.

Aijai, olisi pitänyt lähteä sinne rähisemään.

AriFerra

Lainaus käyttäjältä: Hönkki - syyskuu 04, 2014, 15:43:52

Joo, Rochefortissa ovat. Kaupungissa on muistaakseni ainakin yksi todella hyvä subu-seura.

Hyvä subuseura? Höh? Mistään subusta nyt ollut kyse vaan erinomaisesta luostarioluesta...
S.P.Q.R. -> Sono pazzi questi romani
http://subbuteo-ile-ja-jere.vuodatus.net/
EN TYKKÄÄ ENKÄ JAA!

Rossonero

Lainaus käyttäjältä: AriFerra - syyskuu 04, 2014, 21:56:27
Lainaus käyttäjältä: Hönkki - syyskuu 04, 2014, 15:43:52

Joo, Rochefortissa ovat. Kaupungissa on muistaakseni ainakin yksi todella hyvä subu-seura.

Hyvä subuseura? Höh? Mistään subusta nyt ollut kyse vaan erinomaisesta luostarioluesta...

Hönkki käyttää subua siten kuin jotkut muut luostariolutta.

Parvekkeellinen luostariolutta kuulosti oikein mukavalta. Et muista oluen nimeä?

AriFerra

#513
Lainaus käyttäjältä: Rossonero - syyskuu 05, 2014, 01:44:33
Parvekkeellinen luostariolutta kuulosti oikein mukavalta. Et muista oluen nimeä?

Kylän nimen mukaan munkit ovat sen nimenneet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochefort_Brewery
Sekä kutosta että kymppiä tuli nautittua, ja hyvää oli tuo 11 rossanenkin. Pintahiivaoluissa, ja varsinkin näissä trappiksissa, ei alkoholi maistu kitkeränä kuten lagerin extravahvoissa, esmes Elefantissa.

Paikkakunnalla on myös upea luolasto: http://www.grotte-de-han.be/en/the-cave-of-han
S.P.Q.R. -> Sono pazzi questi romani
http://subbuteo-ile-ja-jere.vuodatus.net/
EN TYKKÄÄ ENKÄ JAA!

georgy

#514
Kari asked me to comment on the WC and the new rules. So here it is  :)

My presence there was not good. I guess I was quite nervous. At least I managed to go through to the next round with a goal 10 secs before the end. Then I played against Mattiangeli, lost 2-0. He scored 1 goal in the first half and the second 2 mins before the end. He actually won the tournament, and he conceded only one goal! Not very impressive player but amazing defender.
In the team I played only one half.

In open category the final was quite a surprise. Flores was late, lost a match on paper then draw so he did not even qualify from the group stage.

Both team  finals were very tense, and were decided in sudden death! Mattiangeli scored the winning goal and Italy beat Belgium in the veterans (did not watch it, only bits).
But I watched the whole Open final which was probably the best WC final!!!
Amazing! Almost certain that Spain would win, and then Italy draw with Nastazi few secs before the end, because of an amazing mistake/miss by Noguera (he won the Open individual 3rd Spanish in a row) and then Colangelo (an 18-19 year old, the next best thing!) scored against Flores in sudden death!
I can not write more details, but what I described was just a 5% of the match. Amazing!!!! Pity that there was no live streaming.

-------------------------------------------

Now about the rules!
OK. First I have one question.  DID they ask Finland to vote by mail? I am really curious about this.

In my opinion the whole thing was a farce and I really think that they manipulated the community. The rules HAD to be voted as a SET (not vote each rule). They sent the rules in August few weeks before the WC.
Untested and I am sure that there is an agenda. I think most associations did not even understand or read the rules. Basically 3-4 are the important (actually huge) changes, and then they added some clarifications to other cases in order to camouflage what they really wanted to impose on the community.
OK I know that I might sound crazy, but there was a very long discussion in FB page of FISTF. I can say more details in person.
My own prediction is that this year there is going to be a chaos and many many fights because of these rules.

This is the file with the modifications (rules 1-5 are the big changes, 3 is an absolute joke, will discuss the rest also in person :) )
SO READ THIS FIRST

http://fistf.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/FISTF-Sports-Rules-Update-Project-Modifications.pdf

And this is the new rulebook including all the new changes, with pictures
http://fistf.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/FISTF-Rules-V.-5.0.pdf

The following was my fist comment in FISTF page on the set of rules
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9stmvzxQonxUmRINnI4S1ZQWWc/edit?usp=sharing

And actually I have even made some videos (using my new table :-) ) in order to show how stupid rule 3 is. Check them if you want and read the comments on YouTube
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boT9UUqPN48
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH-Tn8RJDhA

All these before the voting.
Anyway, now the game will change drastically so it is useful to adapt asap (although I think that after a year we might change back if there are really many problems, fights etc)

It would be good to arrange a few friendly matchs in order to start using the new rules AS WELL AS EXCHANGE IDEAS or discuss questions etc.., because that's the only way to discover possible problems, as well as possible "solutions" or tricks that can be used.

PS By the way the next 3 WC will be in Italy
Also the FB FISTF page has a discussion with 800+ posts about the new rules.

georgy

I add also here some comments from FB in order to give you an idea of how the game will be played (read this part after reading the modifications pdf file)

Heinz Eder as it seems the only important skills are now to hit the ball the way not to touch 2 defending figures after playing the ball!

Καπα καπα I think that the only important skill now is to flick the ball towards to moving defender

George Papadopoulos I think the only important skill now is to force ALL the time flick ins!!! (see later)

The rules have been voted. It's over. From now on it's time to sit back and enjoy the chaos that they will create. The game changes drastically, there has not been any real testing, some will benefit a lot from these changes (at least in the beginning).

Forced flick in (which was considered "not so nice" in old subbuteo) will become a huge weapon for the attacker since he can AT THE SAME TIME:
a) advance a player (the one that forces the flick in)
b) smash (since he is not punished by the rules)
c) do the flick in without moves so the defender is helpless
d) use flick in to pass and shoot with a moving ball (this will be for sure the trademark of the new rules!!!)

BTW case (d) is sooooooooo realistic and common in real football! So many goal from a throw in!!!
From now on almost every flick in in the defenders half can be used as a pass+shoot a moving ball (why do it only with a corner?)
Everyone will start forcing ALL the time flick ins!!!

The defender will probably also in such cases try to foul on purpose (he has nothing to lose) and the game will certainly become much ... fairer!

About the current smashing rule (nothing to do with smashing!) we have said it already. Just a joke, will create so many difficult cases for the ref. Already in the WC there were players saying that they will not punish cases that they DO NOT consider smashing! Nice rule!

I wish to all the supporters of these untested rules ALL the difficult cases whenever they are refereeing!

...... (and the following was my last post. I add these in order to give you an idea of my persective)
George Papadopoulos I have written many things in this post before the voting using arguments, logic, video examples etc. I have not received any answer (surprise!!!!). It's good to see that world class players like Vasco and Koutis have the same opinion as me about the problems that will be created.
Even though the voting was democratic, the process was not. And that's a fact. Giving rules 2 weeks before the voting is a joke. By the way I am curious about the 15-4 result, since the greek representatives said 8-6. Anyway at this point this is irrelevant, just shows that everything was planned ahead. Inform as less as possible in order to get the result that you want!! Someone already said that some did not even know what they voted for! Nice! And they affect the whole community.

Another fact: The greek association voted NO. They did not support the GREEK sport director's project!!! Probably one of the very few associations which really acted responsibly (not one man taking decisions like in many other cases) understanding that these rules are not clear! Simple as that.

There is so much added complexity. Just idiotic.
You expect newcomers and young children to be able to ref? Even the seasoned players have difficult time with the existing ones, and now we add rules to count for the spare keeper, to check extra things when ball is moving (easy....)

I have said it many times. The main aim should be to help the REFEREE!
Because he is also a player! And these rules (the important ones) are a step towards the opposite direction.
Moreover the new additions favor "forcing".
Forcing flick in and free-flick will be the trademark of the game. Imagine how many fights we are going to have.
Even the corrent addition (rule n1) still, leaves the decision to the ref!!!


--------------------------------
I hope I helped to give you a fist idea about the new rules. I also have just scratch the surface, we can only undestand them better the more we play and use them!

Rossonero

Lainaus käyttäjältä: georgy - syyskuu 13, 2014, 02:33:12
George Papadopoulos I have written many things in this post before the voting using arguments, logic, video examples etc. I have not received any answer (surprise!!!!).

George, I see that nothing has really changed. I remember using arguments, logic etc, just like you, but never getting any answers (from FISTF), and never getting the people in power to argument logically. You also tried it then.

Sad for the game, but reading them through fast, your arguments seem correct. They forgot to first think what is wrong with the game, and change according to that. They started with changing. There are far better ways to change the game into being more dynamic (if that's the goal), as we have already discussed years ago.


Hönkki

FISTF pyysi selvityksen taloudellisesta tilanteestamme (tiliote, kirjanpito jne.) Zinga lähetti tarvittavat asiakirjat, jotka toivonmukaan ok. Jos eivät ole, niin emme saa järjestää FISTF:n turnauksia.
Bailey, Gidman, Albiston, Wilkins, Moran, McQueen, Coppell, Birtles, Stapleton, Robson, Macari. Sub. Moses

miku

Lainaus käyttäjältä: Hönkki - huhtikuu 24, 2015, 15:34:02
FISTF pyysi selvityksen taloudellisesta tilanteestamme (tiliote, kirjanpito jne.) Zinga lähetti tarvittavat asiakirjat, jotka toivonmukaan ok. Jos eivät ole, niin emme saa järjestää FISTF:n turnauksia.

Jos eivät usko niin sanokaa että Purtsilla on suhteita itään..
Lukenut HeSun höpötysosaston (325 sivua) läpi kahdessa viikossa.

Fabio

Lainaus käyttäjältä: Hönkki - huhtikuu 24, 2015, 15:34:02
FISTF pyysi selvityksen taloudellisesta tilanteestamme (tiliote, kirjanpito jne.) Zinga lähetti tarvittavat asiakirjat, jotka toivonmukaan ok. Jos eivät ole, niin emme saa järjestää FISTF:n turnauksia.

Kenelläköhän siellä on noin pieni kikkeli?!? :D


AriFerra

Lainaus käyttäjältä: Fabio - toukokuu 05, 2015, 13:14:34
Lainaus käyttäjältä: Hönkki - huhtikuu 24, 2015, 15:34:02
FISTF pyysi selvityksen taloudellisesta tilanteestamme (tiliote, kirjanpito jne.) Zinga lähetti tarvittavat asiakirjat, jotka toivonmukaan ok. Jos eivät ole, niin emme saa järjestää FISTF:n turnauksia.

Kenelläköhän siellä on noin pieni kikkeli?!? :D


Eiköhän tuo nyt ole ihan normaalia järjestö/yhdistystoimintaa?
S.P.Q.R. -> Sono pazzi questi romani
http://subbuteo-ile-ja-jere.vuodatus.net/
EN TYKKÄÄ ENKÄ JAA!

Fabio

Lainaus käyttäjältä: AriFerra - toukokuu 05, 2015, 14:23:14
Lainaus käyttäjältä: Fabio - toukokuu 05, 2015, 13:14:34
Lainaus käyttäjältä: Hönkki - huhtikuu 24, 2015, 15:34:02
FISTF pyysi selvityksen taloudellisesta tilanteestamme (tiliote, kirjanpito jne.) Zinga lähetti tarvittavat asiakirjat, jotka toivonmukaan ok. Jos eivät ole, niin emme saa järjestää FISTF:n turnauksia.

Kenelläköhän siellä on noin pieni kikkeli?!? :D


Eiköhän tuo nyt ole ihan normaalia järjestö/yhdistystoimintaa?

Kyllä, jos sitä on aina vuosittain vaadittu.. Jos ei ole, niin joku "pikkukikkeli" on
noussut omasta mielestään "valtaan" ja kyselee ja vaatii turhia planketteja ihan
muuten vaan.. Siltä tuo ainakin minusta kuulostaa! (Mutta kuten kirjoitin, jos
tuo on ollut tapana, niin se on ihan ok.)

Rossonero

Lainaus käyttäjältä: AriFerra - toukokuu 05, 2015, 14:23:14
Lainaus käyttäjältä: Fabio - toukokuu 05, 2015, 13:14:34
Lainaus käyttäjältä: Hönkki - huhtikuu 24, 2015, 15:34:02
FISTF pyysi selvityksen taloudellisesta tilanteestamme (tiliote, kirjanpito jne.) Zinga lähetti tarvittavat asiakirjat, jotka toivonmukaan ok. Jos eivät ole, niin emme saa järjestää FISTF:n turnauksia.

Kenelläköhän siellä on noin pieni kikkeli?!? :D


Eiköhän tuo nyt ole ihan normaalia järjestö/yhdistystoimintaa?

FISTF ei ole normaali järjestö.

Kyllähän tuo on megaluokan pelleilyä, kun aikaa ja vaivaa käytetään tuollaiseen. Tarkoituksena oletettavasti "siistiä" jäsenmaista pois kaikki liian pienet, johon mm. osa italialaisista on pyrkinyt jo pitkään.

Kun FISTF:n oma talous ei kestä tarkempaa tarkastelua, eikä sieltä muutama vuosi sitten edes suostuttu tekemään selkoa taloussekoiluista, ja kun vaikkapa Italian liitolla on talous niin kyseenalaista heidän oman fooruminsakin mukaan kuin voi olla, niin kyllä, kyse on jostain pienestä. Onko se kikkeli, mieli vai mikä, sitä en tiedä.

Hönkki

MM-kisat alkamassa, jos kiinnostaa seurata
http://www.italiasubbuteo.it/worldcup/en/
Bailey, Gidman, Albiston, Wilkins, Moran, McQueen, Coppell, Birtles, Stapleton, Robson, Macari. Sub. Moses